An unusual "almost" Type XX

Posted by slide1968 
An unusual "almost" Type XX
July 20, 2012 12:16PM
Dear all,
In the last months I started to develop an interest in small watch companies – sometimes pure watch assemblers – that despite their small size have their own history and originality, as well as being geographically restricted to specific areas.
In particular I tried to find out how many companies like this were northern/Italy or even better Milano based.

The search is always quite adventurous and surprising, since not much material is available, but slowly and step by step I discovered several niche brands (but not necessarily in the luxurious sense we usually give to this word) such as Squale, DPW, Pryngeps…some of them have already been introduced in this forum.
My latest discovery is Wintex.

Wintex Milano was born in 1958 when Caldex, a Milan based firm, acquired the brand name “Wintex” from Rolex Montres group.
Apart from producing its own watches (casing mostly swiss movements such as Landeron, Eta and others) Wintex has been for a long time the
Italian distributor of Breguet and Girard-Perregaux brands.
Wintex watches were (are) quite classical for what concern the mechanical lineup, while are most fashion/glamour for the quartz collections.
They also produce jewellery pieces, for external companies too.

Having found their address on the web, I went to their headquarter in Milano, not far from the medieval castle.
I had the chance to have a look at their mechanical timepieces collection, and I have to admit that – apart some aesthetical aspect I don’t fully like –they’re really amazing.
Power reserve, retrograde date, triple retrograde second, big date, chronograph are some of the complications featured in these watches.
I really appreciated the fact that – when asking which calibre was beating inside the cases - they had no hesitation in saying:
Chinese Seagull movements.

I had experience of sellers and watchmakers that tried to hide the Chinese nature of their watches, as if this was diminishing the mechanical value of the complications.
To me Chinese calibres are not “the devil”….I already had the chance to appreciate Seagull (let me remind that they produce the 25% of world’s mechanical calibres) and their reliability in some watches I own.
What I really appreciate the most is that these cheap movement allows the people to experiment the beauty of horological complications
without the need to sell the house or the car.
So I am not speaking of rare, beautifully finished, hand made movements…Which might perhaps appear a bit blasphemous to some of you my friends hot smiley but I am speaking of the possibility to have - for instance - a reliable column/wheel chrono, big date etc at far less than 500 euros…which is good for the mission to widespread the passion smoking smiley for mechanical watchmaking.

Coming batch to Wintex watches, I have to say that the influence of Breguet design is evident, especially in the way that many hands are
distributed over the dial, as well as for the dial finishing.
Among all these watches my attention was caught by the Legionario, a hand wound chronograph Type XX style, two registers, moved by the well known Seagull ST1901.
I think it is worth to spend some words about this calibre, since its history is quite confused smiley interesting.
In the early sixties of the past century the Swiss company Venus (well known and appreciated for its chrono calibers) was about to dismantle the tooling used since then to produce the Venus 175, because they needed to raise funds for developing the new calibre 188.
Venus company first took contact with the Soviet Union to sell the machinery, but the Russians already had their valuable chronographs (you know, Poljot, Strela, etc) so they were not interested.
At the same time, for political convenience, the Chinese were about to stop making use of Russians chronograph calibres for their watches,
and were in the need to develop a self-made mechanism for their People's Liberation Army Air Force (this project was called the Project 304).
So Venus sold to Chinese the 175 tooling machines, and by October 1965 the first Chinese-made chronographs were produced by the Tianjin Watch Factory.
Since then many other calibres were produced, during the quartz crisis the development of mechanical watches was greatly reduced (except for the very low-end that was still pricely competitive against quartzes).
However in 2003 the Project 304 and the production of mechanical watches only was revived and updated, giving birth to the ST19 caliber and its many variants.
Seagull entered the USA market officially few years ago and is foreseen to enter the European Market by this autumn.
Their offer should/will span from simple automatic watches to very complex tourbillons, double tourbillons, repetitions – all of them at a relatively affordable price.
And it would be interesting to see how Swiss brands will react…

Getting back to the Type XX style, I always loved it.
Unfortunately I had not (yet) the chance to own one, but given the extremely reasonable price I decided to bought the Legionario as a sort of “trial”.



The watch is quite small, about 38mm. The dial is the typical Type XX two registers, with small seconds at 9 and chrono minutes counter at 3.
Subdials feature a nice filet circulaire pattern. Indexes are Arabic coated with luminova (good visibility in the dark).
The glass is a plastic one.
Chrono pushers are pump/style and the crown is onion/shaped with great grip. All of them are aligned, of course, since this is an integrated hand/wound chrono calibre featuring column-wheel distribution.



The power reserve is about 40 hours, 19 Jewels, beating at 21600 vph.
The case back is transparent and reveals an interesting mix of wheels, levers and screws
( forgive the ingenuity, this is the first chrono calibre I have full visibility of, being it manual wind) screws are blued
(painted, of course…but not less aesthetically interesting than the fire-blued ones) and the bridges feature a sort of cote de geneve decoration,
not exceptionally made but I can’t complain given the price…



However, despite the cheapness, what is really absolutely mindblowing is the smoothness of pushers.
Never tried a feeling like this, in none of the chrono I own.
I only wonder how long this will last (is it a matter of good oiling in a new calibre or of perfect construction ?).



The overall judgement for this watch is quite positive.
I love the appearance, I love the way it works.
I love a lot the quality/price ratio which I believe it is absolutely unbeatable for a brand new chrono.
Only Swatch was able to do better in terms of price (their mech chrono are automatic !) but I think that quality is higher here,
at least because there is no plastic in the mechanism.
Finally, having my city’s name on the dial makes me proudwinking smiley even if of course a real Type XX would never have that kind of signs…

A nice addition to my collection, and maybe a forerunner of a true Type XX (Breguet, Dodane, Vixa, who knows ? )
Regards from Milano,
Slide68



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2012 12:23PM by slide1968.
Good find!
July 21, 2012 09:10PM
Thanks for sharing slide1968.

Indeed it is always a nice feeling to find a watch brand who is not afraid to tell you the origins of their movement and charge you honest pricing. I do believe there are more and more such watch companies sprouting up.

I have had the opportunity to find two such companies - Magrette and Movas Watch.

Magrette is a New Zealand company and they use the Miyota movement for their watches and they have a nice brass case version.

Movas Watch is a Singapore company that uses the Seagull movements and states clearly that they do.

Both brands charge a fair price for their watches and I believe will be great value for entrants into the world of mechanical timepieces. I will find time to post some pictures here of those watches.

Cheers!
I'm curious...
July 24, 2012 06:36AM
ciao Eddie,
thanks for your feedback.

I'm really curious to see the brass case watch you mentioned !!
As far as i remember only Panerai did so, and brass is a so interesting material - especially for divers !

Bye from Milano,
slide68
Very interesting article...
July 24, 2012 10:08AM
about Wintex and Seagull. These are watches that IMO, are good value-for-money. The Seagull movement looks great..
Some shops in Singapore have started to carry Seagull range of watches....maybe they could be like Seiko someday.

Cheers!

chua
Panerai Forum Moderator
Actually i think they will...
July 26, 2012 05:58AM
Ciao Chua,
I think the same, most likely it is just a matter of time and of building a reputation of reliability.
This is not easy in Europe where everything coming from China i am sorry to say it is seen - in the best case - as cheap poor quality.

But i am sure that the move to sell movements to well-known brands is very smart and will help Seagull to build that kind of reputation (something similar to what ETA did).

Bye from Milano,
slide68
Magrette
July 26, 2012 07:54AM
Hi Slide68,



I am borrowing these pictures from Harry taken from his website. My photography skills are not as good as his.

Although it says bronze, it is actually brass.